Claim: Minouche Shafik said in an interview, over a decade ago, that terrorism “is a form of protesting”.
Fact: Shafik’s remarks have been misrepresented. She does not say terrorism “is a form of protesting” but that it is “really troubling” that “there’s actually quite a broad base of society which has some sympathy for the terrorists, not so much because they approve of their methods but it’s a form of protesting against a system which is not delivering for them on the economic or the political front”.
On 23 April 2024, The Daily Wire Investigations Editor Brent Scher shared (archive) a video on X (formerly Twitter) of Columbia University President Nemat Shafik, commonly known as Minouche Shafik, speaking during an interview, with the following caption:
“FLASHBACK: At an event just two months after 9/11, Columbia University’s current president Minouche Shafik remarked that terrorism ‘is a form of protesting’”
Who is Minouche Shafik?
Egyptian-born Shafik is an economist by profession and currently serves as the 20th president of Columbia University.
According to her biography and CV, she has held leadership positions at various institutions around the world, including the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund, UK’s Department for International Development, Bank of England, and the London School of Economics and Political Science.
Shafik has also been associated with the British Museum, Siemens, and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.
Columbia University in hot waters
Shafik — alongside Columbia University Law Professor David Schizer, and the co-chairs of its Board of Trustees, Claire Shipman and David Greenwald — testified (archive) before the US Committee on Education and the Workforce on 17 April 2024 over the institute’s “response to antisemitism” (archive).
Columbia University is the fourth (archive) major educational institute to be scrutinised over the issue of campus antisemitism following Israel’s ongoing war (archive) in Palestine that was sparked by a Hamas attack (archive) at a border area of the Middle Eastern country on 7 October 2023.
A few months ago, the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), Harvard, and the University of Pennsylvania came under fire for their testimony at a congressional hearing looking into antisemitism on campuses, according to CNN (archive). Shortly after the hearings that took place then, the heads of two varsities — Claudine Gay and Elizabeth Magill — stepped down from their posts.
According to a 24 May 2024 update (archive) by the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA), over 35,800 Palestinians have been killed and more than 80,200 injured. At least 1,200 Israelis have been killed and upwards of 5,400 injured, while 125 Israeli hostages remain in captivity.
Protests, arrests at universities
On 17 April, the same day as Shafik’s hearing, Columbia University students set up encampments to protest against Israel’s war in Palestine, demanding it divest from companies doing business with the Middle Eastern country and end its dual-degree programme with Tel Aviv University.
Soon after, Columbia University called in (archive) the New York City Police Department (NYPD), which “arrested 108 students who were in the encampments”. In an email, Shafik asked security personnel to clear the protest site as it “severely disrupts campus life, and creates a harassing and intimidating environment for many of our students”.
The Columbia University protests inspired (archive) multiple other demonstrations across the US — as of 25 April, “60 schools [were] reporting on-campus protests” — and around the world, spilling over to campuses in the UK, France, Italy, and Australia, among other countries.
By 2 May, the total number of arrests across the US had risen (archive) to 2,200 after at least 200 protesters were detained at the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA). Police used “riot gear, tactical vehicles, and flash-bang devices to clear tent encampments and occupied buildings”. Moreover, arrests were made (archive) “on more than 30 campuses across at least 23 states”, with other schools facing similar protests but without any arrests.
Police made “more than 100 arrests” (archive) in a late-night raid on 1 May on Columbia University’s Hamilton Hall, which the protesting students took over and renamed (archive) “Hind’s Hall” to honour the six-year-old Palestinian girl, Hind Rajab, “killed by Israeli military in Gaza on 29 January”, according to The Columbia Daily Spectator (archive).
The university has also started to suspend (archive) students “to ensure safety on our campus”, according to Ben Chang, its vice president of communications. Shafik has requested (archive) the police to “retain a presence on campus through at least May 17, 2024 to maintain order and ensure encampments are not reestablished”.
According to a report (archive), in November 2023, Columbia University suspended two student groups — Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) and Jewish Voice for Peace (JVP) — and, in April 2024, according to Shafik, it involved private investigators and notified the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) over campus events and political speech.
Fact or Fiction?
Soch Fact Check first observed that multiple users flagged Scher’s claim as misleading and out of context here, here, and here.
We then identified that the clip is from Shafik’s appearance in the show “Conversations with History,” created and hosted by historian Harry Kreisler, the former executive director of the Institute of International Studies at University of California, Berkeley.
According to the website of UC Berkeley IIS (archive), the episode was released on 12 November 2001 and featured Kreisler discussing “the role of the World Bank in private sector development with Nemat Shafik, the Vice President of the organisation”. It also includes a link to the full interview (archive), which was uploaded to YouTube on 1 February 2008.
At the 20:33 mark, Kreisler asks Shafik, “What is your perspective on how terrorism fits into this equation because it seems to follow logically that if people can’t find the roles that a modern society would define for them given their education that they could fall into the various kinds of traps of the … terrorism being one.”
Shafik’s response — from the 21:00 mark to 22:08 mark — is as follows:
“Well, it’s tough. It’s tempting to think that but I’ve struggled with this because one encounters terrorism in fairly rich and open societies, like Italy or the UK or France and Germany and those are all places that have open economies, democratic institutions, and long traditions of tolerance, of opposition, and, yet, you have terrorist groups operating in those countries. So I think it’s not so simple. I think, though, what economic stagnation and political authoritarianism do create is not so much the terrorists but the fertile ground on which terrorists seeds can flourish. So it’s not … You’ll always have individuals who will have extreme views, but what’s really troubling in the region is that there’s actually quite a broad base of society which has some sympathy for the terrorists, not so much because they approve of their methods but it’s a form of protesting against a system which is not delivering for them on the economic or the political front.”
After listening to her entire response, it is clear that she does not state that terrorism “is a form of protesting” nor does she defend such a stance. In fact, Shafik says it is actually “really troubling” that there is “a broad base of society which has some sympathy for the terrorists, not so much because they approve of their methods but it’s a form of protesting against a system which is not delivering for them on the economic or the political front”.
Lastly, Fox News Digital published (archive) a report on Shafik’s response to the video, quoting a Columbia University spokesperson who clarified that she “condemns terrorism, full stop”. They further added, “To intimate otherwise is dangerous and a complete misrepresentation of what she said.”
Soch Fact Check, therefore, marks the claim as misleading.
Virality
Scher, the editor at The Daily Wire who originally made the claim, went on to publish an “investigation” at his publication with the title “FLASHBACK: Columbia President After 9/11 Said Terrorism Is ‘A Form Of Protesting’”.
The article’s lede repeats the claim without any clarification and the full quote is only provided in the third paragraph.
Elise Stefanik, a Republican US Congress member from New York, who has demanded Shafik resign, is also quoted in The Daily Wire article as saying the video “is just further evidence that placating the pro-Hamas unsanctioned mob currently taking over Columbia is part of her core beliefs”.
Stefanik reposted Scher’s X post with her own comment, writing, “Further evidence that placating the pro-Hamas unsanctioned mob currently taking over Columbia is part of her core beliefs. Resign now.” On Facebook, the lawmaker stated, “Here’s Columbia University President Shafik rationalizing terrorism shortly after 9/11.”
Far-right American commentator and conspiracy theorist Pamela Geller, whom Soch Fact Check has previously flagged for misinformation, also shared the same claim on Facebook, with a link to her website carrying an article on the same.
Soch Fact Check found that the misleading claim was shared in multiple X posts, including here, here, here, here, and here. On Facebook, it was posted here, here, here, here, and here.
The clip of Shafik was also uploaded with the misleading claim here on Reddit, here and here on Bitchute, here and here on Rumble, and other websites such as this, this, this, and this.
Conclusion: Shafik’s remarks have been misrepresented. She does not state that she thinks or believes terrorism “is a form of protesting” but that it is “really troubling” that “there’s actually quite a broad base of society which has some sympathy for the terrorists, not so much because they approve of their methods but it’s a form of protesting against a system which is not delivering for them on the economic or the political front”.
Background image in cover photo: Columbia.SIPA
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